T5 Original-tuning...

[Rö!]

ich probiers einfach....

bei meiner Conversion funzt das 22/67 wunderbar! (sind auch 203ccm)

geht aber über 125 km/h raus!

ich denke dass die T5 mit 22/68 besser läuft wie die 200er Lusso....

mal sehen

Rö

[Belzenoob]

ich probiers einfach....

bei meiner Conversion funzt das 22/67 wunderbar! (sind auch 203ccm)

geht aber über 125 km/h raus!

ich denke dass die T5 mit 22/68 besser läuft wie die 200er Lusso....

mal sehen

Rö

also ist deine absicht die t5 mit ori zylinder mit 22/68 zu fahren sehe ich das richtig ?

(also mein t5 motor lief immer besser wie ne ori 200er lusso)

[Rö!]

ja richtig....alles original, nix höher, ovali...bulla bulla....

auch keinen Neuauflage vom O-Pott....der ist nämlich schön die olln Dinger verbaun! dann funzt das auch

gabs schon mal n Topic....

Rö

[Belzenoob]

also ich habe den originalem motor 98m motovespa ( der sehr gut fährt) mit 21 zähnen keinen großen spaß überland. da ich auf dem land residiere habe ich wieder auf 20 zähne zurückgebaut. kann aber auch daran liegen das ich 3 stelliges gewicht habe.

dennoch kann ich mir net vorstellen das man bei gegenwind und leichtem bergauf in irgendeinen 4. gang kommt.

sag mal deine erfahrungen röö wenn des getestet hast

[Pott]

Das ist dann wohl Geschmackssache

Auf O-T5 Motor war mir 20z zu kurz und die längeren Gänge durch 21z fand ich entspannter

Einen „leidenschaftslosen“ Vierten (schöne Beschreibung) kann ich bei 21z untermauern … auch kann ich mir vorstellen dass ein italienischer Bergbauer noch nicht bei einer einzigen Fahrt auf die Idee gekommen ist die O-T5 Übersetzung zu verlängern

Endgeschwindigkeit war mit 95kmh identisch egal ab 20 oder 21z

Alles mit O-Pott

Bei Resopuff sieht das dann anders aus

Bea meint: @Röö: Probiers aus und berichte. Könnte mir vorstellen der Motor läuft trotzdem 95kmh, aber ich gehe davon aus die Gänge werden insgesamt zu lang sein.

Auf einem gesteckten Malossi macht das 22z m.E. nur Sinn wenn man viel Langstrecke fährt ... zum aggressiven Rumbolzen ist das nix

Magst nicht mal auf einen PrÜfstandfahren?

Wäre sicher mal interressant was so ansteht mit einem gut gemachten O`Tuning!

[Rö!]

......ihr mit eueren blöden Prüfstandsläufen........

auf der Staße wird gefahren!!!!!!!

[gucci]

Jaja, schon gut mit der Strasse....aber Strasse ist nun mal subjektive Empfindung: ein steiler Leistungsanstieg mit wenig Band wird als sehr kraftvoll empfunden und ein Motor mit sanftem Anstieg aber sehr gutem Band eher als Langweilig.

Würd mich schon interessieren wie sich so ein gepimpter Originalmotor nun so verhält, Mehr Dampf, mehr Band etc..?!?!

[Crank-Hank]

Sehe ich genauso: Der Motor sollte auf den Prüfstand. Das wird nur leider vor April nichts

[T5Pien]

ist das hier das untere pleullager für eine t5 ?

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/de/products/~/products/lager+kurbelwelle+_gdt0304a

und sind das die richtigen anlaufscheiben

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/de/products/anlaufscheibe+pleuel++201x_ro0318

[audiard2]

hello everybody,

I've followed this thread from the first to the last post. Nice way to get more power from a o-T5..

I'm on my way to get me a o-tuning T5 too.

You can follow the step by step progression in o-french tuning words on http://scootentole.o...t=87763&start=0 you will need to register.

just some mecanical specifications:

o-zylinder with a massive porting

timing with a 1mm thick base gasket: üs:122°/as:182°(68% breite)

o-welle with 125°- 65° inlet duration.

massive porting of the case transferts and smoothening the toboggans with "kalt metal".

Straight inlet with a SI 24G (strickly no ovalisation, for sake!) 120/50 and 120/BE4/122

Squish 0,95mm standard squish band and "brenntraum"

a PEP3 exhaust (seems pretty loosy...)

1400 gr polrad with a mytronic unit to get some extra torque at low revs (my only "special" trick on my o-tuning...)

It's still "in progress" but it will soon replace my o-tuning px 125...

here some pictures:

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"in progress" right case

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Bearbeitet 29. Januar 2012 von audiard2

[Crank-Hank]

Hi audiard2

The cylinder looks good also your valve timing but I go with the theory the work on boostport is overrated. Anyhow would you mind showing us what modification you did on the piston?

I would not mill the dividers at the casing transfer ports, in my opinion they are just essential to get the gas flows best direction. But too late at your engine

Your carb setting I am curious about if it runs well. My tuned T5 engines needed all 5+8mm holes drilled into air filter and BE3. Based on my experiences BE4 and 122 main idle is too lean in mid range and 122 could also be too lean at full throttle even if with pep3 pipe. For the pepdesign exhaust I strongly recommend BE3

Important is have you drilled 2mm to main jet idle?

Overlisation is not that bad but at least I would smoothen from carb till casing

What clutch are you using?

You can modify the cylinder head (1,2 - 1,5mm squish is recommended) or you can change to a MMW head. The change was a nice improvement on my engine (see topic)

Please keep us in the loop about your project

Hank

[audiard2]

BE3 is leaner than BE4 (more and bigger holes on BE3 that brake the gaz flow till a higher RPM, so leaner till a higher RPM) useless on a small capacity like a 125CC and usefull for a 170 and more to avoid a too rich idle and mid RPM ( on a SI 24 of course)

SIp banded basket cluch with a DR 4 disc in. Works perfectly (not a fooking Cosa clutch....)...

The boost port is now really open:

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SI ovalisation is a non sens and kills gaz flow speed and venturi advantage... I've tried to make the inlet the most straight possibile and a bit piston oriented: Air filter is just drilled upon the main jet (3mm bore but not upon the idle one: I don't really need to lean out this part of the rpm....)

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Squish is 1- 1,1 mm

Is there a MMW spare head in 55mm ??

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Bearbeitet 2. März 2012 von audiard2

[Crank-Hank]

Thanks for sharing

I think about 24si carb settings the two of us don´t need to discuss, you have here a totally other point of view (but thanks for sharing)

Ovalisation I have done like indicated:

This ´little´ ovalisation I have tested against a standard carb ... works better! No negative issues I can tell.

You go with auto lube? Because of your carb casing. With a pinion gear from a PX200?

So no work on the piston? You haven´t adjusted the piston skirt to your cylinder? Why? Stabilization doubts?

Clutch 20 21 22 theeth? Standard T5 gearing?

Here you can find the MMW optimized cylinder head:

http://www.scooter-c...C&category2=CAT

Was a noticeable good change on my o-tuned engine

Bearbeitet 2. März 2012 von Crank-Hank

[audiard2]

before:

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after: piston skirt seems fragile so I leave a bit of it on the boost port side

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It's an old and crappy spanish T5 without autolub nor starter. It was in a really bad shape when I got it: case broken and welded at the flywheel bearing spot ( hidden behind the stator plate), inlet "ganz" destroyed ( must have swallowed a piece of metal to get such a mess!) and silent blocks out of work:

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I had to reshape the inlet pad with kaltmetal...

clutch is 20 tooth and standard T5 gearing. Just a street puller....

I 've made the complete "o-tuning fuer duemmies" on my 200 it works very well too with an ovalized carb. But getting old and wise I'n not sure now it changes really something... So new project and new tests on a complete and straight inlet (almost....)

It works like a bullet...

I've order a P-D basic star just to see if I can get the last poney out of this engine.

Thank you for the link; I'm gonna watch this really carefully...

Bearbeitet 2. März 2012 von audiard2

[audiard2]

News from the west!

I've changed my main jetting for a 120/ modified BE4/128 in place of a 120/BE4/125. I had previously tried the 120/BE4/128 but it was clearly a bit too rich. I've rebored 2 of the 4 upper hole on the mixture tube from 1 mm to 1,2 mm to brake a bit more gas flow till higher rpm. Now 128 is just fine and allow the engine to rev a bit higher without any sign of heavy richness.

From left to right: BE1- standard BE4-modified BE4/128

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Next step is a dyno on the 20th of march.

[Crank-Hank]

Please post your dyno results

Could be to complicated because its written in german: http://www.vespaonli...n-bauteile.html

Check post 16, (22) + 33 .... and go with BE3 plus an air filter with holes

Are you able to try a dyno run with another carb setting? Please try 120/BE3/160+125main jet and air filter opened for jets (PX 120+160)

[audiard2]

got the kürve! unfortunatly it's a dynojet not a P4.. So the power is somewhere between wheel and crank...

Big Boss said to me my jetting was too rich at idle/low-mid revs. You were right: I need to lean out a bit my idle and change my mixture tube. I tried this afternoon to fit a 120/BE5/125 and a 110/50. Seems to work perfectly and I can open full throttle without going 4 stroke for a while. I have nothing to lose to test the BE3 next time and see how it works. I lost 0,3 hp just screwing in half a turn the mixture screw!!! I'm a bit surprise of such an effect on the complete range!

PEP3 seems to reso a bit too low for the T5. I've ordered a basic star and Marco told me it will be finished today, so i'll get it within a few days in Paris. I've ordered the MMW head too. Thank you for your advice.

I will give a look to your link about "SI vergasser und Duesen!" I can read technical german but hardly write it without making such mistakes....

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Bearbeitet 21. März 2012 von audiard2

[audiard2]

just some old (and accurate) craps about weber carburators to cope with the "braking system" of the mixture tube (emulsion tube):

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Bearbeitet 21. März 2012 von audiard2

[audiard2]

Could be to complicated because its written in german: http://www.vespaonli...n-bauteile.html

Check post 16, (22) + 33

Quite impressive and technical!

[Crank-Hank]

Mythronic was already fitted?

Please let us know about your results regarding the carb settings.

Drill the holes into air filter and try 140 or 160 (instead of your 120) in combination with BE3

Do you have the opinion for another dyno run before fitting the Basicstar?

[audiard2]

the mytronic is fitted from the very start of the the project.

I will test every SI tuning possibilities without any taboo.

I'll wait till I get the BS before a new dyno run (a bit too teuer (60 euros) !)

[Crank-Hank]

Do you have a rev counter? If yes mark 1/4 + 1/2 + 3/4 at throttle on your headset (eg tape+edding) and you can easily see what idle change givs how much rev.

What revs does your engine make right now? It must turn like hell with 20z clutch or not?

[audiard2]

I have a rev counter (not really accurate)

look at the dyno run: 9000 really fast but Pmax is at 6700 and it goes down quickly afterwards...

The BE5 seems to give more power. The leaning out of Idle jetting (120/50) gives an extra bottom power really usefull. The engine is really efficient with lot of torque at reasonable revs. Next step is the BE1 with his four 1mm holes on the tiny section (BE3 1,2mm)

Air filter is drilled (such a mess upon the idle jet....)

I'm pretty sure the B-S will provide a higher power peak and an extra power range till higher Revs...

limits of the frame/ brakes/ absorbers are really closed....

Bearbeitet 22. März 2012 von audiard2

[Crank-Hank]

Sorry I meant what is the engine pulling on street. How much does it turn on full throttle

But useless with your rev counter

The air filter beam right over idle jet I drill as much to be able to go with the PX jets.

@Kmetti:

[audiard2]

I've received and set up the Basic star T5 and... My jetting needs a complete change... it's much too rich by now from idle to the first 1/3 of the throttle. Afterward it's all crasiness and the engine revs like a rocket.

I've been testing on idle 110/50; 120/50; 130/50, 120/45 all too rich. 140/50 is a bit too lean. SO I need to find the good one between 2,66 and 2.8... 130/48 (2,7) is maybe the right one.

Main is now 140/BE3/125 I will try 160/BE3 to follow the advice of krank-hank

[Crank-Hank]

Hey buddy I said use 160/BE3 with your PEP exhaust and you should use at least BE3 for the BS...

I would recommend to go with BE2 for the BS if you allow me to make another advice

But anyhow: sounds good and keep us in the loop

[audiard2]

160/BE3/125 works no doubt it has leaned out the low-middle RPM and let the idlejet do his job....

I'm running a 140/55 for idle and it's close to perfection....

[Crank-Hank]

Thumps up .... and now rock the dynojet!

[audiard2]

yes: no P4 avalable in Paris intra muros....

It's gonna be amazing!

[audiard2]

I'm just back from the dyno. It's a rainy and moist day in Paris..

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It seems to work fine now.

I've lost a bit at bottom end but the gain is enough with an extra 1000 rpm. Pmax is at 7500 with more than 16 hp at the wheel..

Bearbeitet 10. April 2012 von audiard2