Gerüchte über Kopien, aktuelle Plagiatsvorwürfe etc.

[amazombi]

@ScootRS:

If you really believe the manifold promoted on your website to be any different to LTH's that shows one thing only: You have no idea what you're talking about and are a salesman only. When next you meet the person responsible for C & P (that's copies and plagiarism, something not even remotely related to R & D) ask him where exactly he found that two year old prototype. If the answer, as I suspect, is: "In a parcel I got from that German shop" you should work on your definition of prototype.

I for one would very much appreciate if you could resist the temptation of using that axemurderer-of-a-translator thing in the future.

[Adam]

@ScootRS:

In a parcel I got from that German shop

[Mr.Grumble]

Huch!

Watschn rechts ( ) und Watschn links.

Und wieder rechts und wieder links.

Is ja wie Kino! Tiptop!

Ruhe, es wird während der Vorstellung hier nicht gequatscht (nix Schwallerhalli).

Ich nehm den Körper von der Linken und das Gesicht von der Rechten...

Kannst sie beide zusammen für umgerechnet 50,- € die Nacht vor Ort haben, aber nicht kaputtspielen

Bearbeitet 29. Januar 2011 von Mr.Grumble

[Lord Sinclair]

es sollte doch allen klar sein, dass das ganze nur über die alte Achse Berlin-Rom läuft also Deutschland und Italien!

Wenn Asien, dann nur Tokio, und die Engelländer werden halt besetzt!

Keine Chance für `nam!Sorry!

[scootRS.com]

>>If the answer, as I suspect, is: "In a parcel I got from that German shop" you should work on your definition of prototype.

If you post the exact same thing about SCK/MBD and their tubeless rim - "In a parcel their copies and plagiarism department got from that Vietnam shop" - then everyone can know you are fair and have only one rule for everyone, right? (And about the LTH reed-valve - they weren't the first -, or the LTH disc brake, or the AF Rayspeed rim, or the MBD clutch spider, etc., etc., etc...)

But if not...

<<----???

Again, the point is very simple: you can't have one rule for Europe (and friends) and another for Asia. All shops can make new items similar to old ones and benefit consumers, or not.

We live in a big world now. Blind nationalism is fun at a football match; otherwise it gets ugly very quickly.

Cheers.

>>that axemurderer-of-a-translator thing

Yes, google is terrible at translating German. Is there a better one? Sorry, I can't speak German beyond snippets from Nietzsche. My Wille is there, but I have no Macht

Bearbeitet 30. Januar 2011 von scootRS.com

[Salino]

..........ach nix....

Bearbeitet 30. Januar 2011 von Salino

[goeksus]

Kannst sie beide zusammen für umgerechnet 50,- € die Nacht vor Ort haben, aber nicht kaputtspielen

die haben bestimmt auch nen ansaugstutzen... diese asiaten....

Bearbeitet 30. Januar 2011 von goeksus

[lee150]

Hello Randall,

your on the wrong track here mate:

Again, the point is very simple: you can't have one rule for Europe (and friends) and another for Asia. All shops can make new items similar to old ones and benefit consumers, or not.

Any copies from anywhere, be it Asia, Germany or England get ripped apart on this forum, your one rule for everbody question is already working on here.

Translation:

Hi Randall, hier bist du falsch mein freund:

Jedes Plagiat, ob Asia, Deutsch oder Englisch werden bereits auf diese Website auseinandere genommen, deine "Ein Regel für Jedermann" funktioniert hier bereits.

[amazombi]

Ok. Just to get that straight: You, Randal, are a hypocrite. You steal other peoples' ideas and try to hide behind a more than weird theorie about some hypothetical judge applying different standards. First there is a logical problem: You want people to apply the same set of rules to everybody. You yourself say, a set of rules becomes invalid as soon as anybody anywhere in the world does not follow it. Your idea seems to be: "copying was shit at first, but since it has happened it now is ok". Would you apply the same line of argument to other petty crimes such as murder, or child abuse, too?

On top of that I can positively assure you that Europeans from Spain to Lithuania are rarely, if ever, of one opinion. You're idea that there is a common European opinion an Asia, which appeared to me to be rather a heterogenous continent in itself, is not only ill-founded, it's ridiculous. The guy from Ingolstadt copying exhaust pipes is just as much of an asshole as your friendly copyshop owner from Switzerland, the USA, or Burkina Faso, and I do get the distinct impression that I'm not the only European to think so.

I think you have given ample proof of the depth of your technical understanding already. Still I find it's necessary to stress the point once again: Please take the time to look at the LTH disc-brake. Make sure you have the head of you C & P department with you while you do so. I take it he has at least enough technical understanding to explain to you why the LTH discbrake it quite different to what you are selling. If you, or you C & P guy more like, think of a part that may sell well you are of course entitled to develop it, manufacture it and sell it. Nobody will be complaining about that. If, on the other hand, you think that blatant rip-offs are your idea, go ahead. But, for gods sake, stop whining if you then get the reaction you deserve.

On that last note I'd like to comment on something else: Nietzsche, who had a well deserved reputation for not being the complaining or whining type himself, wrote a few things. If you care to read them (I would strongly recommend the original, not a copy. Quality of the latter appears to be rather wanting sometimes. I'm with Nietzsche there, btw, he says, and I translate freely from memory, "if you want to go hunting in the realm of philosophy it won't do to let the hounds do the work. You have to tackle the beast yourself". No "Sophie's world", and no Wikipedia summary. It not the same as the original.), in particular his "Genealogie der Moral", you will find that your differentiation between "Wille" and "Macht" is not borne out by the text itself. Nietzsche explicitely claims, that "Wille" and "Macht" are the same really. Again you appear to be labouring under a missconception. I myself have found that oftentimes not saying anything is preferable to saying things of which one knows nothing. My opinion, of course.

[JungSiegfried]

Schnacker.

[amazombi]

Schnacker.

Nur um mal ein Antwort auf deinen bräsigen Beitrag von oben zu bringen: Ich für meinen Teil habe mich als Anteilseigner nicht zuletzt deshalb aus einer Firma verabschiedet, weil mir die Wahl der Produktionsstandorte nicht gepasst hat. Ich für meinen Teil fertige alles, was ich verkaufe selbst. Mit meinen eigenen Händen. Unter anderem handelt es sich bei dem, was ich verkaufe, um hochwertige und recht teure handgemachte Fahrradrahmen. Meine Kunden legen Wert darauf, den Menschen, der das Rad ihrer Träume baut persönlich zu kennen. Sie legen auch, genau wie ich, Wert darauf, dass wir uns miteinander wohl fühlen. Wenn jemand ein Rad haben will was ich nicht bauen mag, weil mir der Typ und seine Vorstellungen nicht abgehen, dann sag' ich ihm das und lege ihm nahe, sich jemand anderen zu suchen. Ich für meinen Teil spüre auch regelmäßig, verstärkt nach erfolgreicher Reproduktion, den Ruf eines sozialen Gewissens. Unter anderem deshalb geht ein fixer Teil meines Firmengewinns an karitative Einrichtungen, und ich versuche zudem, wenn sich die Gelegenheit bietet, finanziell und/oder tatkräftig zu helfen. Ich für meinen Teil bin nicht perfekt, im Gegenteil hab' ich leider mehr Fehler und Schwächen als mir lieb ist. Ich hab' aber trotzdem keinen Bock, mich als "Schnacker" bezeichnen zu lassen, weil ich manche Dinge so sehe wie ich sie sehe, und ganz besonders hab' ich keinen Bock mir das von jemand sagen zu lassen, der mit einer Variation von "Geiz ist geil", angereichert mit "der Zweck heiligt die Mittel" einen mir zutiefst unsympathischen Standpunkt vertritt.

[JungSiegfried]

??? Midlife-crisis, oder was? Hast du das Monopol auf Ironie und heile Weltbilder? Finde ich ziemlich anmaßend, wie du in letzter Zeit meinst, über Leute urteilen zu dürfen und zu müssen, von denen du, wenn überhaupt, gerade mal virtuelle Fragmente kennst. Finde ich toll, dass du schweißen kannst. Finde ich auch toll, dass du offensichtlich mal nen Rethorik-Kurs oder Ähnliches besucht hast. Traurig finde ich, dass dir das offensichtlich ein wenig zu Kopf steigt. Hoffentlich wird das wieder, fand deine Beiträge ansonsten ganz gut.

[sukram]

Ihr Swager !

Das Topic war dafür von der Vorsehung bestimmt, das sich hier nur einer blamiert - Dat Randall. Und der macht das engagiert und zu hundert Prozent

Wenn ihr euch auch knietief blamieren wollt, macht eure eigenen Topics auf...

[amazombi]

??? Midlife-crisis, oder was? Hast du das Monopol auf Ironie und heile Weltbilder? Finde ich ziemlich anmaßend, wie du in letzter Zeit meinst, über Leute urteilen zu dürfen und zu müssen, von denen du, wenn überhaupt, gerade mal virtuelle Fragmente kennst. Finde ich toll, dass du schweißen kannst. Finde ich auch toll, dass du offensichtlich mal nen Rethorik-Kurs oder Ähnliches besucht hast. Traurig finde ich, dass dir das offensichtlich ein wenig zu Kopf steigt. Hoffentlich wird das wieder, fand deine Beiträge ansonsten ganz gut.

Midlife crisis: Keine Ahnung. Kann sein.

Über Leute Urteilen: Nein. Eher nicht. Über virtuelle Fragmente aber schon. Ich find' kopieren Scheiße. Ich find' Kopierer scheiße. Und ich find' den Standpunkt, dass man das nicht scheiße finden dürfe, wenn man sich nicht gleichzeitig Vegan ernährt und für den Weltfrieden menstruiert scheiße. Und ich find's scheiße, deswegen als "Schnacker" bezeichnet zu werden. Ob und wie ich was kann, oder besucht habe, hat damit, glaub' ich, nix zu tun. Danke aber für den Versuch der Beurteilung meiner Person auf der Grundlage von was? Genau. Danke. Ansonsten: Ignore Button nutzen.

EDIT:

Herr Jungsiegfried hat gerade in einer PM etwas klar gestellt. Offensichtlich hab' ich da was in den falschen Hals gekriegt. Dafür möchte ich in aller Form um Entschuldigung bitten. Ich bin bei diesem Thema aus persönlichen Gründen vielleicht wirklich empfindlicher als Not tut.

[loslowrider]

edtih

Bearbeitet 31. Januar 2011 von loslowrider

[scootRS.com]

amazombi:

Once again, none of these "new" items is exactly the same as an older one, as you continue to ignore with endless straw man points. (And no one said there is a common European view of Asia, as you claim. Personally, I think most people are open-minded and fair; only a tiny loud minority isn't.)

If you post the exact same thing about SCK/MBD and their tubeless rim - "In a parcel their copies and plagiarism department got from that Vietnam shop" - then everyone can know you are fair and have only one rule for everyone, right? (And about the LTH reed-valve - they weren't the first -, or the LTH disc brake, or the AF Rayspeed rim, or the MBD clutch spider, etc., etc., etc...)

But if not...

You still haven't done that but instead call people in Asia liars and stupid and whiny and thieves and more if they reply to the insults and simply point out a double standard about making new items, or tell you they haven't even got the item you assume they copied. All the insults are quite ugly and unhelpful to civil discussion.

>>My Wille is there, but I have no Macht

>>you will find that your differentiation between "Wille" and "Macht" is not borne out by the text itself... not saying anything is preferable to saying things of which one knows nothing.

Good god, I obviously didn't discuss Nietzsche at all, I made a little joke from the title, Der Wille zur Macht. Given that I did my Master's in philosophy and wrote my thesis on Nietzsche - did you? - and have read him in English, French and German (by line for philological significance), I'll let your ignorance on that subject go without further comment. But surely all reasonable people must find it a bit frightening to hear anyone constantly assume that foreigners are stupid and inferior to oneself and one's friends.

Cheers.

„Was der Mensch als Gott verehrt, ist sein eigenes Wesen herausgekehrt."

Bearbeitet 5. Februar 2011 von scootRS.com

[Lambrookee]

Ach,

we both seem to have kind of the same idea about quoting .

But ein Gluck this Topic lives on.

GMY

[lindy]

Alles so bunt hier.

Warum schlagen sich eigentlich immer alle sofort die Köpfe ein, wenn es um Geld geht? Warum muß es überhaupt um Geld gehen immer? Ich dachte mal - im Ernst -, das hier^TM wäre mein Hobby. Ist es aber zum Glück nicht, was ich wohl noch rechtzeitig bemerkt habe, als sich plötzlich etliche "verdiente" Leute der "Szene" mit Messer hinter dem Rücken gezeigt haben, als ich mal ein paar Ideen (alte, nicht mal meine) umgesetzt habe.

[steve]

Given that I did my Master's in philosophy and wrote my thesis on Nietzsche - did you? - and have read him in English, French and German (by line for philological significance)

[scootRS.com]

That's hilarious.

That chicken should show up whenever someone uses Nietzsche on any forum to try to lecture people:

On that last note I'd like to comment on something else: Nietzsche, who had a well deserved reputation for not being the complaining or whining type himself, wrote a few things. If you care to read them (I would strongly recommend the original, not a copy. Quality of the latter appears to be rather wanting sometimes. I'm with Nietzsche there, btw, he says, and I translate freely from memory, "if you want to go hunting in the realm of philosophy it won't do to let the hounds do the work. You have to tackle the beast yourself". No "Sophie's world", and no Wikipedia summary. It not the same as the original.), in particular his "Genealogie der Moral", you will find that your differentiation between "Wille" and "Macht" is not borne out by the text itself. Nietzsche explicitely claims, that "Wille" and "Macht" are the same really. Again you appear to be labouring under a missconception. I myself have found that oftentimes not saying anything is preferable to saying things of which one knows nothing. My opinion, of course.

[amazombi]

amazombi:

Once again, none of these "new" items is exactly the same as an older one, as you continue to ignore with endless straw man points. (And no one said there is a common European view of Asia, as you claim. Personally, I think most people are open-minded and fair; only a tiny loud minority isn't.)

You still haven't done that but instead call people in Asia liars and stupid and whiny and thieves and more if they reply to the insults and simply point out a double standard about making new items, or tell you they haven't even got the item you assume they copied. All the insults are quite ugly and unhelpful to civil discussion.

>>My Wille is there, but I have no Macht

>>you will find that your differentiation between "Wille" and "Macht" is not borne out by the text itself... not saying anything is preferable to saying things of which one knows nothing.

Good god, I obviously didn't discuss Nietzsche at all, I made a little joke from the title, Der Wille zur Macht. Given that I did my Master's in philosophy and wrote my thesis on Nietzsche - did you? - and have read him in English, French and German (by line for philological significance), I'll let your ignorance on that subject go without further comment. But surely all reasonable people must find it a bit frightening to hear anyone constantly assume that foreigners are stupid and inferior to oneself and one's friends.

Cheers.

„Was der Mensch als Gott verehrt, ist sein eigenes Wesen herausgekehrt."

I do have an unfinished PHD thesis. That doesn't help me at all though if I get the content of things wrong.

I did not (and will not) call people in Asia in general liars. I may have have called you a whiny, thieving liar though, maybe not in these very words, in meaning I did though. I have also explicitly written that copying sucks, regardless of where, or by whom, it is done. I would very much appreciate if you could stop repeating fragments of thought in the vain hope that repetition may turn them into truth. I have also pointed out a rather significant logical fault in your "line of arguments". You didn't care to read that though.

[Disco-Gänger]

Ende ginge

, wenn man sich dem nicht länger stellen wollte.

Grüße, Guido Weh

[Arne]

[scootRS.com]

I did not (and will not) call people in Asia in general liars. I may have have called you a whiny, thieving liar though, maybe not in these very words, in meaning I did though. I have also explicitly written that copying sucks, regardless of where, or by whom, it is done. I would very much appreciate if you could stop repeating fragments of thought in the vain hope that repetition may turn them into truth. I have also pointed out a rather significant logical fault in your "line of arguments". You didn't care to read that though.

You continue to repeat things that simply are not true, even after you are told they are not true, and you only say them about an Asian shop. What conclusion should one draw about such ill will?

Here is what we repeat that you ignore: We don't have an LTH reed-valve, we can make a reed-valve if we want like others have, we made it from our prototype 2 years ago, the one we made doesn't even look like the nice LTH CNC one I've seen, you haven't even seen ours, LTH was not the first anyway, and LTH/SCK/MBD/AF/etc. all do the exact same thing in making new parts similar to what others did before (many examples above).

It's very simple: either post the exact same ugliness about everyone, or about no one. Anything else, along with all the insults, is just ugly nationalism.

God help your thesis if you can't see the obvious bias there. But good luck with it.

Cheers.

Bearbeitet 8. Februar 2011 von scootRS.com

[greasy steve]

Weitermachen!!! Das hier ist besser als jeder daily Comic

wann kommt eigentlich Godwin ins Spiel?

[T5Rainer]

the one we made doesn't even look like the nice LTH CNC one I've seen

Nobody (exept You) is talkking about a plagiat of the LTH-CNC-manifold.

To optimize "Your" reed-manifold follow the V3.0-LINK.

[amazombi]

I really think Arne has a point there. Apparently it isn't possible to come to an agreement, and repeating arguments is hardly entertaining for the rest of the bunch.

Wenn ich damit jemand auf den Sack gegangen sein sollte tut mir das leid. Ich bin bei dem Kopierthema vielleicht übersensibel.

[steve]

@amazombi: passt schon. hier nervt nur einer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh0hznRQu00

[Heidewitzka]

auf's -Plagiat.

Nobody (exept You) is talkking about a plagiat of the LTH-CNC-manifold.

To optimize "Your" reed-manifold follow the V3.0-LINK.

[scootRS.com]

His new 3.0 is news to us. Now explain how we made ours before his 3.0 came out and still copied him?

And still no one explains why Asians can't make new items similar to ones before - but LTH/SCK/MBD/AF/etc. do.

Here is what we repeat that you ignore: We don't have an LTH reed-valve, we can make a reed-valve if we want like others have, we made it from our prototype 2 years ago, the one we made doesn't even look like the nice LTH CNC one I've seen, you haven't even seen ours, LTH was not the first anyway, and LTH/SCK/MBD/AF/etc. all do the exact same thing in making new parts similar to what others did before (many examples above).

It's very simple: either post the exact same ugliness about everyone, or about no one. Anything else, along with all the insults, is just ugly nationalism.

It's great to support a friend's shop, but not to the degree of making the Nietzsche-chicken look the most reasonable here

Thanks for the discussion, even if we disagreed.

And seriously amazombi, best of luck with your Ph.D.

Cheers.