[Smart Booster] Retard curves for Ducati ignition

[KTy]

EDIT: Smart Booster is out: http://www.kytronik.com/sb and http://www.germanscooterforum.de/topic/274265-kytronik-smart-booster-plugn-play-variable-ignition-timing-module/

 

 

We are about to finalize the development of the Smart Booster, targeting production in April 2013. (For more info, follow link in signature).

This topic is to collect your comments on the 3 x 5 = 15 curves that will be built-in in the module.
All curves are related to your timing setting.
The maximum RPM is just a point, that is that the timing will continue following the straight line.

Please add your technical comments about the retard curves in this thread (no commercial questions please).
What curves would be useless ? What curves are missing ?
Important note: The target is to mainly cover stock engines, daily, daily street-racer, low-to-mid tuned engine.

OLD curves: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8967/201301sbcurves.png
Thank you !

 

EDIT 2013/08/30: The curves on the final version of the Smart Booster are:

Bearbeitet 30. August 2013 von KTy

[sk8er-boi]

Cool.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 4 mit Tapatalk 2

[sic]

I guess the angle of -4/-5 is too steep. Here is an example of an engine which has been operated once with 19.5 °, and then with 16 ° static ignition.

Perhaps you could use the space on the switch for a 4th starting point at 6000.

For this motor I would choose the curve "Series4".

edit...

same engine with Vespatronic (blue)

Bearbeitet 22. Februar 2013 von sic

[KTy]

Another set of curves from 6000 is also possible. Remember that Vespatronic is very similar to Series6.

Are you sure you would use the series 4 curve ? That's -15degree at 6800rpm

Bearbeitet 22. Februar 2013 von KTy

[sic]

You are right - it should be "Series10" (both violet).

[AK200]

is it possible to start the plateau later, maybe at 2-2500rpm? I would prefer not so much pre ignition in idle rpm, also not at starting the engine

[amazombi]

That's a great concept.

I too think the "steepest" curves are a bit to much. Retarding 5° every 1000 rpm is a lot. I'd rather leave these out and add a shallower curve on the other end, maybe 1,75°/1000 rpm.

Even an Engine which peaks at 8000 or thereabout would have a full 20° retard with 4000 rpm as starting point. That's from 30 back to 10, and if it overrevs to 9 it's down to 5 even. My gut feeling tells me that no square dancer in his right mind needs that.

is it possible to start the plateau later, maybe at 2-2500rpm? I would prefer not so much pre ignition in idle rpm, also not at starting the engine

That's a good idea, I'd say.

[AK200]

you also can take a look on the test wheelspin did with the polini digital, he found some horses in lower revs with it

here it is (Post 2599):http://www.germanscooterforum.de/topic/150906-polini-130-was-kann-er-wirklich/page__st__2580

Bearbeitet 22. Februar 2013 von AK200

[KTy]

Thanks, I had missed the investigation from Alex !

I might remove the -5 degree curves and add another set starting 6000rpm.

For the plateau, I can shift it to 2000. I don't want to shift it too much as some engine don't like too little ignition timing at kick start.

[barnie]

How about that?

Bearbeitet 22. Februar 2013 von barnie

[KTy]

What is useless here ? :)

[amazombi]

Looks good to me. Maybe the jump to 0 could be slightly later still. And the retard could be a bit higher maybe. With the retard characteristics you offer I'd say 35ish ° btdc as a starting point is not completely out, so minus 5 would still leave tickover at a hefty 30. I have a feeling that setting the starting and tickover retard to something a bit higher (like 10 or even 12°) would not be a bad idea. What would you say is the mininum retard you'd expect people to start with? 25 or thereabout? Which would have tickover at 13 (assuming you go for 12°). Perfectly acceptable, I'd say. With 35 you'd be at 23, which may not be ideal, but still ok. What do you think?

[barnie]

Pls see #10

On low-power-engines you don´t need 10° @ ~6000rpm.

[KTy]

@Matthias: I am expecting most (largeframe) people to put the stator at maximum, anti-clockwise, that would be approx. 27deg btdc. This device is plug an dplay and should not involve more than adjusting the stator plate (no drilling, milling or whatever). I will try -10 at startup, it is actually what I am using at the moment :)

@barnie: curves were updated anyway. Imagine my stock PX200; I set ignition to 27 degree and select Series4 -> 15deg BTDC ignition timing at 6000rpm; not crazy, perfect for 125er. Alternatively, Series3 would give me 18; Ideal for PX200 ? :)

I keep the -1.75 for the square dancers and change the -2.25 to -2.5, giving more granularity for "useful" settings,

Bearbeitet 22. Februar 2013 von KTy

[barnie]

...

@barnie: curves were updated anyway. Imagine my stock PX200; I set ignition to 27 degree and select Series4 -> 15deg BTDC ignition timing at 6000rpm; not crazy, perfect for 125er. Alternatively, Series3 would give me 18; Ideal for PX200 ? :)

...

Every healthy 2stroke can handle 20° @ 8000rpm.

Otherwise power is lost.

[50s-bastler]

... but only when you have a very slow burning air / fuel mixture for some reason. I wouldn't sign that statement.

[amazombi]

I'd still go for 12° of retard at tickover. Doesn't make much of a difference wether it's 17° or 15 at tickover for the plug and play brigade, for those willing to digg deeper it makes life a lot easier though. And frankly with what you have there there's every chance you'll take a huge bite out of the Vespatronic market, not because it's cheaper (which I don't know) but because you have a more reliable ignition with better performance potential. The only possible drawback for serious squaredancers may be the flywheel situation. I'd give it a try on your test system, and if it works without any detrimental effects I'd go for 12 as a happy medium between the worlds.

[KTy]

The same product fully programmable through USB will follow, it is called vCDI; rings bells ? (We are actually using it to test-drive the SB curves)

The SB is for the enthusiastic mass, not the hard-core tuner, that's why I don't want to compromise the "should work right away" feature. We will experiment for the tickover.

I believe the latest 4x4 curves would be covering most of every-day/touring config compared to the initial 3x5, correct ?

Is there a single curve you think is really useless now ? (One spare would be nice...)

Bearbeitet 23. Februar 2013 von KTy

[Schrottpresse]

Wie geil ist den deis, kty for präsident;-) Weiter so!!!!

[KTy]

 I finally gave up on the curves starting to retard from 6000rpm; this is really not so common on our scooters.

 

This is the current status for the curves,

 

 

Feel free to comment !

 

for the product itself, for now check the progress on Facebook !

Bearbeitet 2. April 2013 von KTy

[mpq]

@KTy:

 

....nearly same curves as adj. HHP-CDI v5:

 

Bearbeitet 3. April 2013 von mpq

[Tom Turbo]

for the product itself, for now check the progress on Facebook !

 

Sorry, but how about keeping the scooter related things in "the" scooter related forum?

There are people out there (yes, there are!), without a f***book-account, who are interested in your products...

 

Keep up the good work!

[KTy]

@mpq: Is that a good thing then ? 

@scth2000: When it is available there will be an official post here ! As this is a commercial product, I don't really like mixing technical topics and business 

[Tom Turbo]

Then this will be the right place.

Thanks!

[T5Rainer]

There are people out there (yes, there are!), without a f***book-account, who are interested in your products...

 

Oh yeah

[KTy]

Some updates:

The Smart Booster has been sent to production and should be back beginning of July 

Will follow: assembly, testing, packaging, and ... a dedicated post to announce the product, including price.

 

These are the curves I plan to implement, the degrees are related to your stator timing. As usual, comment are welcome 

 

15+1 curves: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-liQcDizwkg4/Ub6kb44M7xI/AAAAAAAAAZc/SXMNr7MWRUA/w1276-h361-no/2013-06-16

[amazombi]

@KTy:

 

....nearly same curves as adj. HHP-CDI v5:

 

HHP_CDIv5.jpg

 

 

Leonelli?

[Spiderdust]

Some updates:

The Smart Booster has been sent to production and should be back beginning of July 

Will follow: assembly, testing, packaging, and ... a dedicated post to announce the product, including price.

Great news!

[KTy]

Leonelli?

 

Square-dancer private joke ? 

[amazombi]

Sort of. I'm just wondering who makes these. They look like Leonelli stuff to me. A known maker could quite possibly help with support if ever needed.