KE Clutch doesn't disengage

[Svint1]

Hi,

I've got at KE Performance clutch in my Quattrini M1L60 engine...

Fitted With 10 springs and original Cosa clutch plates.

But the clutch doesn't disengage properly.

-any suggestion of fault?

Rgrds

Ø

[chup5]

does the clutch run against the primary?
 maybe there's a problem.

 

if so, the primary gearshaft maybe too short, you can rise the shaft with thin washers.

 

 

maybe the plates are bent?

 

maybe your cluchcover doesn't lift enough:

wichone is mounted?

[julianneubert]

Usually the Clutch Base Plate is pressed against the primary basket. Use a basket and rep kit with screws from the outside. Or use the thin washers as mentioned above.

[Svint1]

Hi all and thanks for replies!

I've used a 0,5mm shim on the christmastree, and I've used the repkit With countersunk screws.

 

I checked the clutch when fitting it, and nothing rubs...

 

It is a KE Performance Series 6 clutch With Cosa plates.

[Motorhead]

a friend of mine had the same problem - he couldnt fix it, but i didnt have the chance to have a look at it.

change to hartz4 was the (best) solution then....

[Svint1]

Just now, Motorhead said:

a friend of mine had the same problem - he couldnt fix it, but i didnt have the chance to have a look at it.

change to hartz4 was the (best) solution then....

 

Ouch!

That's no good for a New clutch that has been used for 60km...

[Motorhead]

well i guess it should work - so maybe you can find the problem?

[Svint1]

It should...

I'll rebuild it with new plates and softer springs to see if it helps... [emoji13]


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[Motorhead]

alt least with cosa clutch plates it should - thats what it was created for....

Bearbeitet 6. Februar 2017 von Motorhead

[Svint1]

Yes, That's my thought as well...

But trying new cork plates and new steel plates with softer springs to see if it helps...


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[chup5]

do the cork plates have enough space to the inner clutchpart?

 

does the clutch disengage as usual when holding in hand and have it compressed? how many extraaxial space of the outer plates is left?

[Motorhead]

maybe check, if there is a contact between moving parts for example....

does it disengage if you compress it when its not built in?

[julianneubert]

Maybe the clutch cover knob /lever isn't pushing on the center of the clutch. Happens with new covers frequently...

[Svint1]

Thanks for the replies gents,

 

I'll have to take the clutch out again and check...

 

But it will take some time, as I'm currently rebuilding my PX200-engine, but the Quattrini engine is NeXT in line...

-I'll keep you updated!

[sf freak]

How much difference do you have?

[Svint1]

1 minute ago, sf freak said:

How much difference do you have?

 

 

I haven't meassured yet...

Need to finnish my largeframe-engine before I move on to the smallframe.

Hopefully by NeXT week I know more...

[Svint1]

Hi,

Changed both the steel plates and the corck plates, and used softer springs....

Now the clutch is Perfect!

Attended dragrace, and did 15 races With burnouts in front, and no slipping clutch.

 

And it disengage perfectly.

 

 

Very good clutch!

[David_Johansen]

That doesen't make sense. Despite how stiff the springs are or not, either a clutch is engaged or it isn't. It's a simple law of physics and the problem was probably solved accidentally, through disassembly with subsequent re-assembly, without the cause being noticed.

When I bought my APE, which uses the identical set-up, I couldn't change gears from underneath, as well as from the grip shifter. The previous owner said that it gradually has gotten worse for him, until it wasn't drivable anymore. I then towed it home and removed the clutch for disassembly. The oil smelled burned and the plates looked likewise. The vehicle had almost 4000 kilometers which shouldn't have been enough to destroy a clutch, under normal use. Since it had the 85 cc cylinder installed, under his ownership, I then suspected that the original clutch was too weak for dealing with the added torque produced by the larger cylinder, being that the APEs are also much heavier than the Vespas. I then ordered a complete racing Zadra clutch featuring 6 stiffened springs and copper plates. Since then, the APE will drive. But, the clutch will not disengage fully and the gear engaement is harsh, as if there wasn't a clutch between the engine and gearbox. Not even when the full travel was duplicated using a large channel lock-type wrench to turn the clutch disengagement shaft.

I have just read, in another forum, that the problem could lie within the gearbox itself. I have never experienced anything like this with other brand mopeds. This is what the plates looked like from the replaced clutch. They might have just burnt, because of limited disengagement at stoplights. What are your opinions, on the matter?

Bearbeitet 9. Juni 2018 von David_Johansen
Ergänzung

[gertax]

Am 9.6.2018 um 21:25 schrieb David_Johansen:

I then ordered a complete racing Zadra clutch featuring 6 stiffened springs and copper plates. Since then, the APE will drive. But, the clutch will not disengage fully and the gear engaement is harsh, as if there wasn't a clutch between the engine and gearbox.

 

What are your opinions, on the matter?

 

 

from a mechanical point of view, I don't think there is a chance shifting itself can become harder because of something in the gearbox. At least, as long as there is oil in the cases and a sufficient amount of it.

 

Sounds like your clutch does not disengage completely. You can check this by compressing the clutch either before installation or with a big nut and the clutch puller when installed. In some cases, the enforced springs are too long to allow for full disengagement (compressed length should be below 12mm). Another case could be that your small  basket is rubbing on the primary gear with the side facing away from you when you look at it with the clutch cover removed. You can not see this in most cases, but you can check for free movement by removing everything but the small basket (use the puller and the nut to compress the clutch first, no need to remoce the central nut of the clutch).

[David_Johansen]

I've just now seen that you replied on Sunday. I was never notified of this which is unusual. Since then, I viewed a tutorial video explaining that wet clutches, because of friction caused by oil viscosity, never fully disengage, while the engine is running, because the oil between the plates pulls the disengaged plates with them. Supposedly, there is a very thin distance between driving and driven plates, during disengagement, which is likely the reason why many owners prefer lusing lighter SAE 30 oil.

After raising one wheel and then turning it in 4th gear with the clutch lever bound to the handlebar's grip, I noticed that the wheel turned relatively freely. Or, at least, the engine didn't turn with the wheel,. as it did in the lower gears. When I turned the lever at the transmission all the way to the end, there was no less resistance to be noticed. So, I accepted it as being normal. The shifting is still very rough and I'm considering trying a lighter oil.

If the basket was rubbing on the primary gear, isn't this due to incompetent assembly from when the vehicle was being manufactured?

 

Here's the tutorial video:

 

 

Bearbeitet 14. Juni 2018 von David_Johansen