Original Malossi head over Polini 133 squish ?

[KTy]

Alloha !

Quite simple:

Does anybody know what is the squish value when you put a Malossi head over a normal Polini 133 cylinder ? (I don't know if you have to take into account the O-ring...?!)

Thanks !

KTy

[px200hh]

As far as I understand the squish value differs, depending on how you "worked" with the cylinder (how many mm you took of etc.). What you have to do, is to adopt the "Brennraum-Form" from the Polini head to the Malossi head. The o-ring does not affect the squish since it doesn't lift the head when put in.

[amazombi]

from my experience the squish clearance is 1,2ish milimeters, give or take a bit depending on the cylinder.

[px200hh]

give or take a bit depending on the cylinder.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I meant...

[KTy]

(

@px200hh: What I asked was the "original" value, not the best value I should be looking for !

Thanks anyway

So I have a value from amazombi...Thanks !

My Polini is already turned by 3mm and I have a 5mm alu spacer ---> 5 - 3 = 2mm :)

So, naturally, the first thing to do would be to remove 2mm at the top to have the same compression ration and squish value with the Polini head. But, since I will probably give a try to a Malossi head, I was wondering how much exactly I should remove to my Polini top...

According to amazombi's squish value (1.2mm) and if I want a 1.3mm squish, I should then only remove 1.9mm at the top of my Polini cylinder.

I guess I should first get the cylinder head, then work on the cylinder, right ? :wasntme:

Bearbeitet 7. April 2005 von KTy

[px200hh]

I was wondering how much exactly I should remove to my Polini top...

I guess I should first get the cylinder head, then work on the cylinder, right ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To get exact figures you have to measure it - that's what I am trying to tell you. Every cylinder is different, so never start removing at the top before having measured the squish. First squish, then you now how much you will have to take off on the top of the cylinder. And if you are doing it that way you absolutely need the head - to measure the squish!

[Paola]

yo,

can't you just read any good tuning manual before you grind on those fuckin' cylinders ? :uargh:

Not talking 'bout you squish clearence...

its the way you messed up the entrance of the transfers, which really pisses me off.

Its not a question of size - its a matter of DIRECTION.

as with fucking - size does not matter

what you do is important

Don't get me wrong vespa friend - but how should you know that it's messed up, if nobody tells ya ?

regards to france :love:

will visit the massiv central this summer, as usually :love:

yo man

Uschi :love:

[KTy]

Hey Paola,

I do have a tuning book, bell's one, nice one by the way :)

What's wrong with the direction of the *entrance* of my transfers ? Don't you mean the *output* of transfers, the ports ?

:plemplem:

[Paola]

yo man,

no, i was talking about the entrance of the transfers into the cylinder.

Entrance ( into the cylinder ) of the transfers, and outlet of the transfers ( into the cylinder too ) should be into the same direction.

Gimme a day or so to post a picture of my Polini and you know what I'm talking about.

yo man

Uschi

[KTy]

no, i was talking about the entrance of the transfers into the cylinder.

Entrance ( into the cylinder ) of the transfers, and outlet of the transfers ( into the cylinder too ) should be into the same direction.

Gimme a day or so to post a picture of my Polini and you know what I'm talking about.

yo man

Uschi

Well I still don't get it

I'll wait for your pics !

Cheers ;)

[KTy]

[Paola]

yo,

the neighbour with the camera will not return 'til sunday noon.

I'll post it then.

yo

Uschi

[kan_Kuma]

yo,

can't you just read any good tuning manual before you grind on those fuckin' cylinders  ?    :uargh:

Not talking 'bout you squish clearence...

its the way you messed up the entrance of the transfers, which really pisses me off.

Its not a question of size - its a matter of DIRECTION.

as with fucking - size does not matter

what you do is important 

Don't get me wrong vespa friend - but how should you know that it's messed up, if nobody tells ya ?

regards to france  :love:

will visit the massiv central this summer, as usually  :love:

yo man

Uschi  :love:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Offtopic on

Dear Uschi, Paola, Kurt.. whatsoever..

More and more people here don't exactly appreciate the way your're behaving around here.

Watch your language! It's not funny anymore.

Further on, what authority do you think you have giving out to Kty, a fellow scooterist and tuner (something I definitely can't say about you) ?

All you can produce is big words! Seems like you can't even come up with a lousy pic of your Polini!

"Hic Rhodos, hic salta"...

How about keeping a low profile for a while?

Cheers

Chris

Offtopic off

@KTY

wait for the Malossi Head, measure the squish clearance and then start removing material. Can tell from my own (bad) experience that no cylinder, no head and no engine block are exactly the same.

btw: Your Polini looks ok to me. Looks like you've worked on the transfer outlets, too :) Curious to see what it'll produce on the break.

Cheers

Chris

Bearbeitet 8. April 2005 von kan_Kuma

[Paola]

yo.

for Topic lovers:

Dear Kty, since Horst Ansorg wrote his little book about transfers, the average guy should know how to open them up.

I was already pissed by PX200HH's Polini in his signature, which I told him in a PM.

To calm you: He also didn't understand, what I tried to say:

To be able to force out the already burned gases of the cylinder, the beam of fresh Fuel/Air mix should leave the ports as "a beam" rather then falling apart right after entering the cylinder.

What he found out in the sixties, is that that happens only, if the entrance angle of a transfer port is equal to its outlet angle.

More than this, there's definetly a way, a transfer and a five port have to look like.

Talking about shapes here.

Your entrances are not as messed up, as the ones I mentioned above.

See my little "Third World drawing" for this.

---

talking 'bout messed up: did you open up the outlet of you main transfers into the direction of the outlet ? Hard to tell on the picture, but it looks like the right transfer is sort of heading directletly to the exhaust ?

As mentioned ealier, in- and outlet angle should be the same, here we have our "MTW" Main Transfer Wall - so the direction should be clear ?

again:

regards to france :love:

Uschi :love:

as I said, drawing is "third world" style. :grins:

for offtopic lovers:

Mensch Chris,

ich hab hier schon ne Menge lustiger Sachen gelesen, aber Du bist gut im Rennen.

Meinst Du nicht, das mir die Ernsthaftigkeit und Verkniffenheit deinesgleichen genau so auf die Nüsse geht, wie einigen hier meine vermeintliche Spassigkeit ?

Alles klar schnuffi ?

gruß von der Küste

Jan heiß ich.

Uschi nur, weil ich nicht länger als Muschi vorgestellt werden wollte.

und Horst is eh klar. :love:

[KTy]

Okay, I get what you mean :)

[gertax]

Hey Paola, what about taking a closer look at those secondary transfer outlet directions... yours are a bit WAY off

[Paola]

yo.

Take a closer look sugar.

it 's a copy of kty's picture.

There's no picture of pussi's Polini yet.

The neighbour, who ownes the camera has gone away. :wasntme:

yo man.

Uschiman :love:

edit korrigiert mich zweimal wie man "ownes" schreibt :uargh:

Bearbeitet 9. April 2005 von Paola

[gertax]

it 's a copy of kty's picture.

There's no picture of pussi's Polini yet.

The neighbour, who ownes the camera has gone away.  :wasntme:

yo man.

Uschiman  :love: edit korrigiert mich zweimal wie man "ownes" schreibt  :uargh:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That I know babe

That I understand babe

Secondary transfers are NOT aimed at the middle of the bore on any 130cc Polini

yo man polini man transfer man

[Paola]

yo.

and no.

Nobody said that the Polini 5 Ports aim to the centre of the bore.

Its just one of the 5 Ports outer walls ( the one near the boost ) which is supposed to aim in that direction.

And not really the centre, about 5 percent out centre ( see drawing ) is where you want it to point to.

the other 5 Port Wall should head to the boost.

By the way: I was really delighted, when I figured out that the polini 5 Ports are aimed much more progressive then the Malossi ones.

Indeed, the better cylinder.

"eat you on the track"

yo

muschi :love:

[gertax]

Nobody said that the Polini 5 Ports aim to the centre of the bore. 

Its just one of the 5 Ports outer walls ( the one near the boost ) which is supposed to aim in that direction.

And not really the centre, about 5 percent out centre ( see drawing ) is where you want it to point to.

the other 5 Port Wall should head to the boost.

By the way: I was really delighted, when I figured out that the polini 5 Ports are aimed much more progressive then the Malossi ones.

Indeed, the better cylinder. 

"eat you on the track" 

yo

muschi  :love:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

your "drawing" did

that wall you are talking about does not aim anywhere near that point you mention, neither does the corresponding wall

Polini transfers are a little better than malossi ones, yup. Time area is also slightly bigger, but the exhaust port is not. So a 1:1 draw. I still like the polini better because of more cooling fins. On the other hand it's a little easier to bolt a nice reed to the malossi cylinder. Everything pretty even between those two.

yeah right

[kan_Kuma]

By the way: I was really delighted, when I figured out that the polini 5 Ports are aimed much more progressive then the Malossi ones.

Indeed, the better cylinder. 

yo

muschi  :love:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you say so, it must be true.

Funny though, I haven't seen a Polini from you anywhere near the output of my oh so bad Malossi

"eat you on the track" 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that remains to be seen...

[Paola]

yo.

Also wie gesagt, die Einströmrichtung der 5 Ports, die ich mir sicher nicht ausgedacht habe, geht ( "überkreuz" ) Richtung ( fast ) center und boost.

Wenn man die Einströmrichtung der 5 Ports vergleicht, erkennt man das die Polini Kanäle deutlich mehr in Richtung Auslass zeigen, als die vom Malle.

Kann man auch an den Innenradien gut erkennen, wohin die strömen.

---

Der Auslass vom Malle ist tatsächlich größer, bzw. bietet mehr Spielraum, daß nach einer Vergrößerung noch genug Dichtfläche vorhanden ist.

Da ist mir jetzt aber nach einiger Grübelei doch noch ne "Lösung" eingefallen.

Mehr davon demnächst hier in diesem Kino.

gruß

Horst

uschi sagt noch: das klemmt schon echt schön mit euch zweien.

Wo ist denn Klemmine ?

[bodybuildinggym]

@ Paola: everything is easier said than done What about your diagrams of a Polini!? :wasntme: The dyno or the track are important not any suggestions about the transfers etc and the "possible" results of it

@kan kuma: calm down a bit!

@all: I am always right

Bearbeitet 10. April 2005 von bodybuildinggym

[px200hh]

I was already pissed by PX200HH's Polini in his signature, which I told him in a PM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DAS würd ich gern mal zur Disposition stellen. Also alle mal meine Signatur anschauen (die Zyli-ÜS wurden noch nicht feinbearbeitet). Und? Ist das - wie Po-ölchen sagt - falsch gefräst...?

[bodybuildinggym]

You're always right BBG  !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also ich kann da nichts falsches feststellen, aber es gibt Leute die machen das anders, nur wie kann ich dir nicht sagen!!! Erst mit der Kneifzange durch den Rücken die Hose zumachen vielleicht :wasntme:

Ich verstehe häufig hier im Forum nicht, warum alles totgequatscht wird, bevor es gemacht wurde. Hätte der kan kuma die Membran vorher ins Netz gestellt, hätte es auch geheißen, "schmeiß das Teil in die Tonne, denn viiieeeell zu groß"

Ich finde es immer genial, wenn jemand seinen eigenen Weg geht und wenn er häufig damit auf den Hosenboden fällt, dann lernt er aber zumindest besser daraus, wenn er es selber erfahren hat! Learning by doing! Denn man spricht in diesem Fall ja nicht von grundlegenden Fehlern!!!

Wenn ich alle Verbesserungen, die hier gemacht werden, auf meinen Motor beziehe, dann bin ich locker bei 30-32PS :uargh: :uargh: :uargh: , aber ich mache es aus Trotz nicht! Denn ist ist immer fraglich, ob die Vorschläge sich auch wirklich in der Leistung wiederspiegeln!!!

z.B.: Ich habe auch an meinem Motor mit Ansauglängen und Spacern unter der Membran(zwecks Kurbelhausvolumenänderung) herumgetestet, was ja immer so viel bringt... :plemplem:

Es hat sich genau nichts geändert!!!

@px200hh: bau, was du für richtig hältst, denn es sieht nicht schlecht aus, was du da machst!

[px200hh]

@px200hh: bau, was du für richtig hältst, denn es sieht nicht schlecht aus, was du da machst!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THX, dann liege ich hiermit ja gar nicht so nicht falsch...

Bearbeitet 10. April 2005 von px200hh

[Paola]

yo.

ich find schon, das man Sachen auch schon mal während des zusammenbaus diskutieren kann.

Wenn möglich, bitte oberhalb der Gürtellinie. :wasntme:

Ich find einfach, das PX200HH's Transfers schon viel zu tief ausgefallen sind.

Die lassen sich zu den Seiten nicht mehr dorthin verrunden, wohin ( ich ) sie gern hätte, ohne beim Fräsen nach aussen durch zu brechen.

Wir sehen uns hier in Hamburg an der Ampel.

so, viel spaß noch beim fräsen.

gruß

Jan

[px200hh]

Wenn möglich, bitte oberhalb der Gürtellinie. (...)  Die lassen sich zu den Seiten nicht mehr dorthin verrunden, wohin ( ich ) sie gern hätte, ohne beim Fräsen nach aussen durch zu brechen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

War ich drunter? Hm.

Das Durchbrechen ließe sich mit einer Füllung von Kommissar Kaltmetall verhindern. Nicht, dass ichh das vorhätte, aber sagen wollt ich's trotzdem mal.

[bodybuildinggym]

yo.

ich find schon, das man Sachen auch schon mal während des zusammenbaus diskutieren kann.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Darum wird ja auch gebeten!

Ich find einfach, das PX200HH's Transfers schon viel zu tief ausgefallen sind.

Die lassen sich zu den Seiten nicht mehr dorthin verrunden, wohin ( ich ) sie gern hätte, ohne beim Fräsen nach aussen durch zu brechen.

Das hört sich doch schon viel schöner an, wenn das so beschreibt und nicht wie zuvor! Damit kann man auch etwas anfangen. Kannst du das mal genauer beschreiben, wo genau du da besser verrunden würdest. Ich sehe das anscheinend etwas anders als du, kann aber auch nur ein Missverständnis sein!

[px200hh]

Kannst du das mal genauer beschreiben, wo genau du da besser verrunden würdest. Ich sehe das anscheinend etwas anders als du, kann aber auch nur ein Missverständnis sein!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

@ BBG: Schau dir mal unten rechts im ÜS die "verrundete" Ecke an. Po-ölchen meint wohl, dass man da noch was runder werden müsste. Das geht da aber ganz schlecht, weil da unterhalb der 1mm-Dichtfläche, die dich beim Draufschauen anguckt, kein Material mehr ist, sondern eine "Rille", bzw "Mini-Kühlrippe". Soll heißen: Wenn ich die Ecke noch mehr ausrunden will, breche ich durch. Oder vorher Kaltmetall rein...

Stimmt's, Po-ölchen?